Every time you read an article about the FreedomBox it mentions that the hardware is very cheap and will become even cheaper in the future. This emphasis on cheap hardware worries me. After all, the FreedomBox is a server that must run reliably 24/7 for years. Cheap and server are incompatible. If you ask the box builders to build something that is cheap you get what you ask for, but you won’t get a server.
I think the FreedomBox movement must be very careful about the recommended hardware. Devices that are crap are a danger to the reputation of the FreedomBox. Once the FreedomBox gets a bad reputation it’s over and out.
The Plug Computer is the hardware mentioned in all articles about the FreedomBox. If you do some research you come up with some serious problems (heat, availability, broken boxes). These problems can be fixed, but the reputation of these devices is in my opinion beyond repair. You can get a good indication of the quality of a device (and its manufacturer) by looking at the warranty period. Globalscale Technologies the maker of the SheevaPlug, GuruPlug and DreamPlug offers a warranty period of one month. One month! Would you buy a “normal” server with a warranty period of one month? In The Netherlands where I live a warranty period of one month for a $99 device is illegal.
The FreedomBox is a server and should have quality requirements for its hardware. A good (first) requirement would be a warranty period of one year for a device that operates 24/7. Devices that have a shorter warranty period should be removed from the targeted hardware list.
But, but, but…..
If you require such an outrageous warranty period our targeted hardware list becomes empty and then we have nothing to play with!!! Calm down, things are not as bad as they seem. There are plenty of interesting devices that can be used for the FreedomBox. Depending on how you look at it, the price of these devices can be zero. Let’s give an example:
Before I had even heard of the FreedomBox I bought an QNAP TS 119 NAS. I needed its functionality and had no problem with the price (300 euro). When I heard about the FreedomBox and got exited about it, I decided to upgrade my NAS to a “NAS FreedomBox edition”. This FreedomBox edition still has all the NAS functionality so I did not loose anything. You can say I got the FreedomBox part for free.
There are many people who like me need a NAS. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could give them free software that would turn their NAS into a “NAS FreedomBox edition”? Maybe we could do the same for a router? Both NAS-ses and routers are designed to run 24/7 and bad apples don’t stand a change in today’s competitive market. Availability is excellent too.
I think the FreedomBox project should work together with builders of NAS and router equipment. Both markets are very competitive and I think the option to run FreedomBox software on their devices would give their devices extra value. It’s a win-win-win situation. The manufacturer can make their product more interesting than the competition (maybe they can sell some FreedomBox addon’s). The customer gets extra FreedomBox functionality for free. The FreedomBox community gets serious hardware to play with and benefits from the marketing of the manufacturers.
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Erik
April 17, 2011 at 20:05 (UTC 2) Link to this comment
You do have a valid point that a one month warranty time for a ‘plug computer’ from Globalscale Technologies is ridiculous.
For what I can see, the FreedomBox community/project has not settled with any particular hardware to bundle up software with and/or support. It is all in the making.
When lurking on the projects mailing lists, you sort of get the idea that it’s going to be a software stack, that’s probably going to be well-suited to run on low-powered machines.
There are quite a few members of the list that has expressed that they want a very modular software stack. And there has been few who have expressed that they do not need it bundled on any hardware, since they do want to run the stack on own existing hardware.
That in it self should take care of some of your worries about ‘plug computers’ not suiting your computing needs.
It is however really great that you take the time to think about the project and that you do care. You’re very welcome with your texts, opinions and mails.
Thanks for caring, from a fellow FreedomBox-dreamer.
See you on the lists!
robvanderhoeven
April 18, 2011 at 10:50 (UTC 2) Link to this comment
Hi Erik, thank you for your remarks.
In my Component Based Design vision the hardware is well, just a component… Easy to replace or upgrade. The hardware of the FreedomBox should be capable to run one or more of our modules. Users can simply buy the hardware that supports the modules that they are interested in. So in my picture of the FreedomBox the user is in the center. He/she can choose both the hardware and the modules.
I am planning to build something that is very user friendly. Something that should also be interesting for manufacturers of NAS servers and routers to include into their products.
What worries me is that the FreedomBox gets associated with one particular type of hardware “the plug computer”, that the FreedomBox is a plug computer. These plug computers are getting a bad reputation and i think we should not continue to promote them.
It is simple to pick out a bad hardware apple ™
. Just look at the warranty period. My hardware comes with a one year warranty, 12 times as much as a plug computer.
Contrary
July 2, 2011 at 00:46 (UTC 2) Link to this comment
There are only a few ways to save money in server hardware – cheaper capacitors, cheaper connectors, cheaper mechanical design. I looked at the QNAP stuff last year and ended up choosing to build an unRAID box, after reading similar arguments over cheap vs reliable/dependable performance. When you can buy FreedomBoxes at Wal*Mart they will be cheap. For now however, I would rather have a competently-designed, reliable, quiet and cool-running appliance, so that I can confidently regain control of my email and web-hosted stuff. FreedomBoxes have to be MORE elegant, MORE relliable, and MORE useful than the net-centric alternatives. Very few will pay just for more privacy – it might look like they had something to hide!
So in large part due to Rob’s arguments here, I bought myself a QNAP ‘hardware component’ and will be following along as this develops. It beats talking.
-=c=-
Laurent
January 14, 2012 at 22:28 (UTC 2) Link to this comment
I’m watching the developments(?) of the Freedombox project. And of the Raspberry Pi project, too. But, until I will get one in may hands will pass some months. Meanwhile I’ve tried to see what other hardware platform with reasonable price will be appropriate for such project.
A good one was the Seagate FreeAgent DockStar having 1.2 GHz CPU and 128 MB RAM, which was available in the Netherlands for around 25 euro. Now it is almost impossible to get it. Another good to consider is the new TI BeagleBone which features 700MHz ARM Cortex-A8 processor, 256MB RAM for 69 euro. I think this could be the best for such project (if you don’t want to wait for the Raspberry Pi). Then another one to consider is HK-584 Android TV Box which has ARM Cortex A8 CPU at 1.2 GHz and 512 MB DDR3 RAM for around $US 90. Replacing Android (a Linux flavour) with Freedombox software should be not too difficult. All these are very portable and could taken with you and your laptop wherever you want.
–
Another fellow FreedomBox-dreamer
robvanderhoeven
January 15, 2012 at 13:37 (UTC 2) Link to this comment
Welcome to the club Laurent!
Choosing the right hardware is very difficult. Personally i believe liberating some mass produced hardware is the way to go, but this is more difficult than i once thought. A few months ago i asked a question in the Debian ARM list about liberating my Android tablet. From the answers i got i learned that ARM SOC hardware is a minefield with respect of running Debian on it. I was very lucky that my FreedomBox device was already supported by Debian, otherwise i would probably not have a FreedomBox. My advice is: buy hardware that fully supports Debian, this is the first priority. Also: don’t focus on ARM alone, you can buy cheap atom boards like:
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/270426/intel-desktop-board-d525mw.html
that are much more powerful (i once compared my FreedomBox with an Atom 330 1.6 GHz which was over 6 times faster) and still are relatively energy efficient (around 30W i estimate, my QNAP ARM with 1 TB HD consumes 11 W).
Laurent
February 14, 2012 at 20:27 (UTC 2) Link to this comment
Many thanks for reply!
I saw that board. But one has to add memories, power supply, case. It is as to build a new computer.
What I haven’t understand is why you need another box (computer) when you already have one (the one you use it connected to the freedom box)? It would not be simpler just to install on your computer those software packages that ensure your full privacy (freedom)? You have a computer, eventually you could make it a dual-boot machine, than on the linux part you need to install and configure some extra packages. No another box, the drivers problem is solved and there is not an extra power consumption. Is such solution possible? I’m just intermediate level linux user and not a programmer.
robvanderhoeven
February 14, 2012 at 22:17 (UTC 2) Link to this comment
If you just want to experiment then a normal desktop computer is fine. Using a desktop computer as a server (connecting it to the internet 24/7) is not very economical. In the Netherlands a one-Watt device that runs fulltime for one year costs about 2 euro on electricity. My desktop computer has an idle power consumption of 93 Watt, so the yearly electricity costs alone would be 186 euro. My FreedomBox computer consumes only 11 Watt (22 euro). By using special low power server hardware i save 164 euro each year!
karln
March 4, 2012 at 13:26 (UTC 2) Link to this comment
Bear in mind though that the Freedombox project hopes ultimately for the box to be installed by casual users who want convenience above all and who have no interest in playing with an NAS when Google etc. will hold onto all their media for them. For every household to run a Freedombox, it needs not only to just plug in and work, but also to be as cheap as possible. You might (eventually) sell the general public on a device that hosts all their social media applications with no spying for $99, but $400 is going to put a lot of people off when they consider that they, personally, have never been directly affected by any of Google or Facebook or Twitter’s privacy screwups.
I do see your point about reliability being necessary for the project’s reputation, and I don’t see a good solution to this dilemma, but I wanted to see what you think about this dilemma. Maybe the geeks with FreedomNASes could offer hosting to a lot of their friends?
robvanderhoeven
March 5, 2012 at 15:30 (UTC 2) Link to this comment
I agree that a $400 device is too expensive if you just want a FreedomBox. There are many less expensive devices that most people need anyway that could be used to run FreedomBox software. Personaly i think that routers are almost ideal for the FreedomBox. Some routers like the ASUS RT-N16 come with 128 MB internal memory which might be enough for the FreedomBox (256 MB would be better). Routers are cheap, reliable (have not had a broken router ever) and low power. It would be very nice if sometime in the future you could upgrade an off-the-shelve router with FreedomBox software.
The possibility to share your FreedomBox with family and friends is a key requirement in my FreedomBox architecture. Not only because sharing is good, but also because this requirement forces me to think about difficult security/privacy questions (example: share hardware but not data between users)